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Thread: a polite discussion

  1. #1
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    a polite discussion

    If the owner of this forum agrees,Ill be happy to begin a polite discussion about the small dish satellite service to receive the main uk television channels in Spain and Europe.
    This to clarify some of the incorrect information that is given on the News section of this forum.
    Of course if the forum owner accepts to have a polite,face to face confrontation.

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    Re: a polite discussion

    I will allow this to be posted, as there are many questions about the system being asked all over internet land, which are the ones referenced and mentioned in the "News" post.

    But first few rules, as I dont want it to turn out like some of the discussion about the system on other forums. Please adhere to the forum rules - no swearing, no unpleasantness, no slagging off other posters and NO POSTING OF LINKS (OR SIGNATURE LINKS) TO COMPANIES OFFERING OR RELATED TO THIS SERVICE (apart from one in your first post in answer to this post which I will allow - aint I kind!). If I think the thead deviates or if I think that any poster "goes to far" it will be closed, and posters banned.

    Firstly it would be useful if you could identify yourself and your connections to the company / system.

    And if you would answer these questions about the system that have been asked about the system on the various forums, and to clarify any other information you see fit, that would be a start in addressing the manu issues this system has brought up.

    1 Is the system run by a German in Murcia?

    2 Is the uplink in Morocco?

    3 Are the dishes located in Spain?

    4 If not, who are the persons running the system, do they have legal and registered offices in Spain?

    5 As per International and EU Copyright law, does the system have the permission from the channel owners and operators to rebroadcast their channels?

    6 As per International and EU Copyright law, does the system have the permission from the channel owners and operators to encrypt their channels?

    7 As per International and EU Copyright law, does the system have the permission from the channel owners and operators to charge for reception of their (Free to air) channels?

    8 If, as per International and EU Copyright law, no permission has been received, are you able to provide documentation / links / evidence that shows you are exempt from obtaining this permission?

    9 If you are selling this system across many countries, have you got permission from each of the countries relevant authority / regulatry department?

    10 If you are selling this system across many countries, are you paying for the relevant lisences for distribution of this system in those countries?

    11 Are you in breach of the term and conditions of the Intelsat Transponder Lease agreement by transmitting material that is in breach of copyright, and therefore Intelsat can terminate the agreement?

    12 If you are not in breach, do you think that Intelsat are in breach of International and EU Copyright law by allowing such material onto their transponder?

    I and others would really appreciate answer to these questions,
    The Sat and PC Guy
    UK Satellite TV, Sky TV, Freesat TV and Spanish Digital TDT Installations Costa Blanca Spain
    96 281 9796 / 620 130 292
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  3. #3
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    Re: a polite discussion

    I thank the forum owner for accepting to open this discussion.
    I fully accept your rules,and only ask,given my position of disadvantage being in a forum where the moderator is also the owner,that my posts are not manipulated or edited.
    Before starting,I take the opportunity you spontaneously gave me to say(on this first post only) that the only authorized agent for Spain is,at the moment,Sat Clima Moller in Torrevieja.

    I cannot give details about my identity,but to avoid false guesses,I can say I have no relation with the above mentioned shop,so Im neither the owner nor an employee.

    Now,the subject of the discussion,what details Im authorized to disclose about the system.
    First,the question of permission from broadcasters.
    The short answer is no,we dont have official permission from the broadcasters,neither have asked as an obvious and prejudicial negative response would be given.Just think of sky subscribers abroad,would they get permission from sky to use their card?But this doesnt mean they are acting illegally.

    Intelsat is completely aware of this,and permission from broadcasters in itself is not a part of their Terms and Conditions,as they agree channels can have multiple reasons to deny a permission for particular interests that do not cover legality issues.
    Just think about it:how could this service be working since months if Intelsat required an official permission document from the broadcasters?

    Instead,Intelsat have set precise conditions that have to be strictly followed and monitored.
    Im allowed to disclose a few of these conditions.
    All the channels broadcast must be originally free to air,so that they dont get a direct revenue from viewers who can access them by satellite without paying a subscription.
    Moreover,even channels that require a one off payment smart card,usually referred as free to view,must be excluded from the broadcast.
    This means,as example,if ITV decided to encrypt its ITV2,3,4 channels,either on free to view or subscription basis,we would have to remove them from the system.
    We are strictly respecting these rules:as you can check,the regional version of Five being broadcast is the one available free to air,not those encrypted.

    Another condition is we can broadcast only the satellite feed of a particular channel,and not any terrestrial digital or analogue feed the same channel might also have.
    So,should the BBC broadcast a blank screen on a satellite program(highly unlikely,as it has never happened so far),we would not be allowed to take the terrestrial feed instead.

    And a thing nobody has suggested in the News section of this forum is the following:not every free to air channel can be broadcast:Intelsat requires the channels we broadcast could also be received,although with the help of a big sized dish,in the same area covered by the Intelsat905 satellite footprint for the transponder we use.
    Im not sure if I have clearly explained this,but to make the concept simpler we can say a channel outside Europes horizon,for example from a North American satellite,we would not be allowed to broadcast even if free to air.
    So,in reality,by setting these conditions Intelsat makes sure we are just letting people receive channels that could be still available to them on a free to air basis,in the same place,but with the only obstacle being the dish size required to receive them.
    For this service,Intelsat agrees we are allowed to charge a fair price,and the way to do this is by encrypting the source signal.

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    Re: a polite discussion

    Think you missed out the answers to a few of the questions above. If you are not connected why NO WE dont have
    So you are in fact connected to this service maybe not that shop but still connected.

    Could I ask a question is your service likely to cease at any time without warning and with no compensation to you subscribers?
    I would just like to add that I have been involed with the instalation of satellites here on the costa blanca for many years and I am a qualified electrical electronics engineer, I have never meet the sat and PC Guy (as far as im aware anyway) but I have met many other so called sat installers here and can only state that i have a great respect for the Truthful unbiased information given on this website by the sat and pc guy . Its nice to see another true pro at work.
    It makes a nice change.

  5. #5
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    Re: a polite discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock22
    ... and can only state that i have a great respect for the Truthful unbiased information given on this website by the sat and pc guy .
    Cheers, and welcome.

    Ref "polites" reply:
    Thanks for the information, although if you could provide answers to all of the questions that would be appreciated.

    So I must assume that if / when the UK channels say to Intelsat "get our "unauthorised channels off your satellite" then this sytem will no longer function...or is there a back up scenario, and will this mean lots of work in readjusting dishes to another satellite?

    Have there been any thoughts about offering the system by a monthly payment - just in case there are any issues and people would not lose a lot of their money. It would certianly help in easing peoples "fears" and "worries" about buying the system.

    For me I think the owner / operator must have ball of steel doing this, especially using a third party (intelsat) for the system. At least the land based rebroadcasters here in spain actually own most of their transmitters / masts etc.
    The Sat and PC Guy
    UK Satellite TV, Sky TV, Freesat TV and Spanish Digital TDT Installations Costa Blanca Spain
    96 281 9796 / 620 130 292
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    Re: a polite discussion

    I see the discussion develops in a polite way,so it can be continued.

    Of course Im involved with the company,I was authorized on purpose to write on this forum to correct some wrong information given on the News section.
    However,as i said,I have no relation with the above mentioned shop.

    Since day one every forum writes the signal will disappear overnight,yet after three months we are still up and running.Why scaring people so much?Am i right in thinking there could be an element of strategy in this worrying people?
    We have a 3 year contract with Intelsat,we are here to stay for long,this is what we want to say to our current and potential customers.
    All terms and conditions of Intelsat contract are strictly met,they are satisfied that rebroadcasting a free to air channel,that is available on a bigger dish size,is legal.
    No permission from the broadcasters is required.
    Im allowed to disclose that so far no complaint whatsoever has been made to Intelsat about this system,thus all rumours about a court case are false.

  7. #7
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    Re: a polite discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by polite
    Since day one every forum writes the signal will disappear overnight,yet after three months we are still up and running.Why scaring people so much?Am i right in thinking there could be an element of strategy in this worrying people?
    Maybe people are sceptical about "new TV systems" emerging after all the recent issues in Spain about rebroadcasters, who is legal and who is not, who may get shut by the GC. Many satellite installers have benn inundated with requests for satellite TV, and many of these requests starts with "I spent a fortune on (rebroadcast) TV just for it to be closed down".

    If someone does not ask relevant questions about a new system that on first glance does not look as if it is operating legally, then people will continue to lose money on TV systems, which is not good as this can have a detrimental effect on any TV system providers - how many times have i heard the word "Cowboys".

    Quote Originally Posted by polite
    All terms and conditions of Intelsat contract are strictly met,they are satisfied that rebroadcasting a free to air channel,that is available on a bigger dish size,is legal.
    No permission from the broadcasters is required.
    Im allowed to disclose that so far no complaint whatsoever has been made to Intelsat about this system,thus all rumours about a court case are false.
    Thanks for that. It is very surpising that Intelsat also see that this is OK to do without the correct copyright permissions Do you have any documentation / links you can point us to that show that "rebroadcasting a free to air channel,that is available on a bigger dish size,is legal."? I would think that someone (maybe even at Intelsat if they are satisfied that it is legal) must be able to provide this. It may also help with clearing up some issues about rebroadcasting in Spain (and other countries also) that has been in the news the last few months.
    The Sat and PC Guy
    UK Satellite TV, Sky TV, Freesat TV and Spanish Digital TDT Installations Costa Blanca Spain
    96 281 9796 / 620 130 292
    info@satandpcguy.com (alternate email satandpcguy@gmail.com )
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    Re: a polite discussion

    I too would like to see the relevent documentation that gives you the right to rebroadcast copyright without any permission as i undertsand it the BBC have never and will never give re broadcast rights to anyone in Spain, as it would be to complicated a process.

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    Re: a polite discussion

    I cant disclose everything,i think Ive already clarified many important points.
    A common misunderstanding,as we can see from warlock22s last post,is to identify the legal issue with the BBC giving permission to rebroadcast:if they give permission,then its legal,otherwise not.
    But this is not the point:the BBC would NEVER give permission,even if you provided them with a full documentation.
    And this is for particular reasons that dont concern the legality of rebroadcasting.

    Among others,here is an example:GSM networks for mobile telephony nowadays have reached a high level of coverage,but there are still some "holes",that is areas where the signal level is very low and ordinary mobile phones would not work.
    In this case there is an EU law that lets these communities build their own repeater systems to get a correct signal level enabling their mobile phones to work properly,without asking for any permission from the operators(who,obviously,would never grant it).

    Let me add that not only Intelsat are satisfied with the legality of this system,but also the encryption company we use,Irdeto (the contract with them is more expensive than most people think).They also are fully aware of the content we broadcast,as they would not sign a contract without knowing what is broadcast.
    Actually we have just received a new batch of cards from them.

  10. #10
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    Re: a polite discussion

    MOD EDIT: Duplicated post

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